Do we only want to hurt them that way?

[kangeiko]

Hello, my name is k., and I'm a fandom addict. I start in on a new fandom and instantly have to devour all the available fanfic for it. Hell, I've seen two episodes of the show, right? I know the character names, that's enough for an initial push into the new shiny thing.

So would someone please explain to me the fascination the B7 writers apparently have with raping Avon? It's as bad as all the sexual abuse that MUNCLE's Ilya Kuryakin suffers. Quite frankly, it pisses me off. H/c does not equal sexual and sexualised torture perpetrated by Teh Ebil Commies, followed by healing sex.

It's as if a large slice fandom up and went - a ha! The enemy will torture my trained operative/soldier/superspy/uber-cute feminine guy, so that means that horrid mean soldiers will rape them. The actual rape will involve many descriptions of Avon/Ilya as pale, with soft skin and almost feminine. They will be terribly, terribly broken, and when rescued by Blake/Napoleon will shake in a very fetching manner. At some point, healing sex will ensue. This will make everything better, transcending even the realities of internal tearing with the innate 'oneness' that nookie bestows upon participants.

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

I understand that some of this fic was written decades ago, when we didn't have the handy internet for reference purposes. The stuff being written now? NO. EXCUSE.

All I'm asking is that you please credit THRUSH and the Federation's secret services with a little bit more finesse than merely wielding a cock. Sometimes they have batons, and electric shock treatment, and cold water, and light, and extreme weather conditions.

Want to know what actual torture could entail? Look at this website Torture Methods. It doesn't look so pretty now, does it?

For the record, sleep deprivation and is one of the most effective forms of torture utilised by both the KGB and today's secret services. It doesn't leave bruises, and it doesn't look pretty. It does, however, tend to break people in terrifying, fundamental ways. You really want to break Kerr Avon? Take away his REM privileges for ten days and watch his body shut down.

Comments

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I suspect that some of the more naive fans don't actually think they're allowed to make things up, so they obediently run through things they've seen in other fics. And fic does give a terrifying glimpse into the fantasy life of quite a few people who evidently don't feel comfortable about writing about sex unless it's been paid for in advance. Pre-atoned, you might say.

[kangeiko]

That's a terrifying thought, I have to admit. I've been reading up on the initial explosion of erotica that hit the shelves after censorship was lifted in the US - ah, if only it was for fun but, alas, it is for research purposes - and I think you are right. There are several common themes at work, one of which is definitely a reluctance to write about normal people enjoying sex - they have to be forced into it by perverts (who often go on to shag animals and their mothers later on in the day). It is only after that, that they are able to actually go off and live happily ever after. All to often the aggressor is painted as having done the young innocent a favour, by introducing him/her to a wonderful new world.

Which is... well, there's the whole other rant about how I took one look at Avon and thought, "that one would be a wildcat in bed". I didn't think that he looked particularly girlish, or delicate, or whatever. That said, I didn't think that Ilya (or Mulder, or Krycek, or Xander, or Spike, or any of the other guys that are written as pseudo-girls) was particularly girlish. So, yeah, the idea of Avon (or any of the rest) as 'innocents' is slightly laughable to me. It's also difficult to think of them as being vulnerable in any way other than being forced to be thus, which leads me right back to...

... yeah. Except - except! - that whole bunches of these fans appear to be nowhere near innocence, at least age-wise. In the immortal words of Kevin Smith, What are they using the internet for if not to research all the fucked-up sex they're never going to have?

I still refuse to believe in the other-wordly healing powers of Teh Cock.

(and it's also the middle of the night for me, so excuse me for not making much sense... I'll have another stab at it tomorrow! *g*)

[executrix.livejournal.com]

kangeiko: I'm sure I would have watched far, far less than all 52 episodes of B7 if I hadn't thought of Avon as someone who looked like he could think up lots of interesting things of a sexual nature. Check out shimere277's screencap galleries--there are a *lot* of really pretty Avon pictures. I always assumed that by the time of the series, he'd spent about 20 years sleeping with anybody he thought he could pull.

I never did believe in the other-worldly healing powers of Teh Cock, in B7 or any other context.

[kangeiko]

kangeiko: I'm sure I would have watched far, far less than all 52 episodes of B7 if I hadn't thought of Avon as someone who looked like he could think up lots of interesting things of a sexual nature.

*nods slowly* You're filthy. I like that. :)

Check out shimere277's screencap galleries--there are a *lot* of really pretty Avon pictures.

Thank you, I will!

I always assumed that by the time of the series, he'd spent about 20 years sleeping with anybody he thought he could pull.

Hey, a thought occurs - have you written him? Because that would be cool...

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha! Well, about 50 Blake/Avons, a couple of Avon/Villas, 15-year-old Avon trying and failing to seduce his confessor, 16-year-old Avon/math teacher/18-year-old Delta girlfriend, Avon/Travis, implied Avon/Egrorian, Avon/Angel, Avon/Giles, implied Avon/Ethan Rayne, Avon/Servalan (including once where he married her), Avon/Anna, Avon/Servalan/Anna, Avon/Inara/Simon, Avon/Simon, Avon/Mal, Avon/Lord Byron, Avon/Lord Peter Wimsey, Avon/Ferron (the scientist in Breakdown), the occasional Avon/Jenna or Avon/Cally, Avon/Tarrant. Rygel made a pass at him once but got turned down. Implied Avon/Zhaan. And the one where he became a Jesuit, which I suppose is Avon&God. I did four zines, one of which was subtitled, "Stories about Avon and other natural and artificial intelligences. Some stories may also contain Tarrant."

[selenak.livejournal.com]

LOL. Ah, this reminds me of starting to look for B7 fanfic, buying a few fanzines and going "err...."

(Incidentally, in s3 we have an episode where Avon gets tortured in the opening minutes in canon. Guess what the chosen method was? Sleep deprivation.)

Mind you, at that point I had been in Highlander fandom before, where the same thing is done with Methos on a regular basis, so it wasn't all that new.

Need some sensible fanfic recs?

*laughs*

[athena25.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Sex that heals all wounds. (4 point merit dontcha know). Have never read any of these, but peered over your shoulder whilst you ranted you could very easily just write an "insert noun here" version and save all those people so much time and effort:
"insert name here" had the wide eyes of a frightened bird...

[kangeiko]

*jawdrop*

Um. Okay, then.

*blink* Is there a particular website that hosts all this yumminess, or...?

[kangeiko]

LOL. Ah, this reminds me of starting to look for B7 fanfic, buying a few fanzines and going "err...."

Mwahahaha, yes! You're expecting all of this prettiness and darkness and stuff, and instead...

(Incidentally, in s3 we have an episode where Avon gets tortured in the opening minutes in canon. Guess what the chosen method was? Sleep deprivation.)

HA! I AM TEH WIN!

Need some sensible fanfic recs?

Yes, please! *squishes you with lots of hugs* You're just the best, you know?

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

You win.
That was an issue I had with so many A-Team fanfics *sigh*
Because yeah it gets old, it gets tired, and it gets silly, and really fast because it's usually so horridly unrealistic in the first place!

My issue too is always how quickly these characters have comforting sex after what was supposedly traumatic (though usually not written that traumatically) rape. Which just . . . isn't always how it works.

And the male reactions are usually not right. They are female reaction to rape. People not only need to research torture but they need to researtch actual eraction to torture and *MALE* reactions to rape.
Because it's not 100% the same as a women's.

Re: *laughs*

[kangeiko]

I think we totally should. It'd be, like, a public service or something...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Okay, bearing in mind you haven't watched the later seasons yet, how about these for starters:


Trial (http://www.hermit.org/blakes7/Library/DispStor.cgi?SR=30529&ST=0115&COUNT)

His Brother's Keeper (http://www.hermit.org/blakes7/Library/DispAll.cgi?SR=30538&ST=0524&COUNT)

Dear Avalon (http://www.hermit.org/blakes7/Library/DispStor.cgi?SR=30533&ST=0012&COUNT) (v. funny)

They don't actually contain sex, but my favourite slash in this fandom isn't online; I'll send you the fanzines via post.

[kangeiko]

You're an absolute star, you know that?? *snuggles you so hard you pop*

[kangeiko]

You win.
That was an issue I had with so many A-Team fanfics *sigh*

OK, my morbid curiosity is now piqued. Who gets the girl!treatment is The A-Team? It's not Face, is it? 'Cause that would be just... wrong. (Or not - no! Not Murdoch??)

My issue too is always how quickly these characters have comforting sex after what was supposedly traumatic (though usually not written that traumatically) rape.

Ah, Teh Magic Cock of Healing!! Yes. All bow down and worship.

People not only need to research torture but they need to researtch actual eraction to torture and *MALE* reactions to rape.
Because it's not 100% the same as a women's.

Exactly. For that matter, women don't have a uniform response to rape - I'd imagine that men wouldn't, either. But, I tell you what, I seriously doubt that a trained spy or soldier who is trained to resist torture (including rape) would be broken using that. AFAIK, they tend to focus on breaking their minds, rather than their bodies...

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I used to have a site but I didn't bother to renew it for lack of traffic. I have a few stories at the main archive, http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7, more at Liberated but I'm not sure what the URL is for it these days. I did a bunch of b7friday assignments, and reposted some of my favorites to my LJ. I can e-mail you stories, I'll do almost *anything* to get people to read the bloody things, which is why I can never understand somebody flocking a fic post.

B7 is a tough fandom to start reading fic before you've seen all of the canon because so *much* of it is post-series.

The Production Code

[executrix.livejournal.com]

During the 1930s, the Production Code for movies required clear statements that Crime Is Wrong and Inevitably Leads to Punishment. I think that, although unfortunate, it is true that there are homophobic slashers and there are also anti-sex pornographers. ("OMG! It's like a train wreck! I can't look away!) so in stories like this there has to be a clear differentiation between Evol Homos and Our Heroes, and there also has to be atonement for sexual pleasure.

BTW, if you're new to B7 fic: a PGP is not a typo for a PWP (and in fact a lot of PGPs are very long)--a PGP is a post-episode 52 fic; the last episode of the series takes place on a planet called Gauda Prime, so it's Post-Gauda Prime.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

...I am so glad I don't even know what you're talking about -- fandom-wise, I mean; obviously I've seen this crap in others. Alas.

[kangeiko]

Thanks for the links, hon', I've been quite happily reading my way through... Strictly S1 (and a tiny wee bit of S2), of course...)

Re: The Production Code

[kangeiko]

That is not something I ever knew about. *ponders* It makes sense, though. Did TV adopt it, d'you think, because it certainly sounds like a lot of 60s and 70s tv...

[kangeiko]

It ain't pretty. *shakes head* And Ilya, for reference purposes, is the blonde guy in my icon (played by david McCullum). Just so we're clear - he's a trained KGB operative who can defuse a nuclear warhead in seconds and beat people to death using only his pinky. *beats head against the nearest desk*

Re: The Production Code

[executrix.livejournal.com]

One reason the 60s and 70s have the reputation they do is that a lot of films and TV shows let people get away with things.