A2A Premiere

[kangeiko]

Ian Wylie - I'm Happy, Hope You're Happy Too

hat-tip: duckyone


Of course I'm happy! I am astonished at the number of people who are not.

OK, let's face facts:

Sam is not in Ashes to Ashes. He isn't. John Simm is off doing other things. So what were the realistic avenues open for explaining Sam's absence?

1. He stayed in Manchester and took over Gene's old job. Because while everyone else loved Gene enough to move to London with him, Sam didn't.
2. He stayed in Manchester because he loved Annie, and they had babies, and we never hear from either of them again. Because what they both need is a 50s existence.
3. He is never mentioned ever again, because there is no explanation for his absence.
4. He left.

Maybe there are more. The important thing for me is that all of the above involve Sam leaving the team voluntarily, which cheapens the LoM ending for me. I mean, he gave up his life for them - and then a few years later he buggers off? Bah. Better that he die and give the A2A guys something to angst over.

BUT! we don't just get angst, oh no. We also get no body. Come on, am I the only one who reads comics? No body = not dead, merely missing. Sam could be in Mexico in 2007 for all we know, wandering around with amnesia. He could have gone deep undercover. He could have been pulled deeper into time. The point is, the current set-up allows him to return - perhaps for the all-important series finale. And how awesome would that be? How much angst and love and back-pounding would it be if Gene has spent >1 year obsessing over his 'death' and then Sam just walks in the door? They'd drink Luigi's dry.

It also - importantly - provides a reason for Gene to move to London. He loved Manchester, and I was more nervous about the move than I was about the haircuts. This is a good reason for him to move, guys! His best friend is presumed dead, he likely feels responsible, so he ups and moves. Annie can't bear to stay with the team because it's all too painful (insert your Sam/Annie here), so Gene, Ray and Chris up and relocate.

It also gives Alex something to work with. Gene has a Dark Painful Past now, and any relationship he has with her could be from displacement. (ZOMG how much would that mess up any Alex/Gene relationships?? He's traumatised, she's a therapist, it'd be wonderfully messed up. Plus, it'd take her a little while to figure out that it's all because of Sam, wouldn't it? Whether you slash them or not, Sam's relationship with Gene is one of the strongest in Gene's life. Once that's gone, Gene's bound to be spinning around without direction. It would seriously affect him. Again - ZOMG, Gene!angst!) I was worried about the basis of interaction between the two - what, just because she's a copper and back from the future they bond? Why would she be interested in him beyond the therapist aspect? This, though - it'd be a carcrash, no pun intended.

Other things.... *thinks*

Oh! Crossover possibilities. Master = Sam, goes back in time too much. Comes to 2006, where the Tardis is. Goes back again. Can't figure it out. Broken!head!Master = brilliant. Eventually comes to sense in 1980. Goes to 2006 and takes over world as he's supposed to. Displaces Alex, who's holding on to Papers of Important Time-Shifting... Ness. Alex in 1981, Master in 2006, cue events of DW finale, Master disappear again.

Reappear in 1981, again as Sam. Gene happy. Alex confused. Sam ticking time-bomb.

Cue Torchwood guys & gals! *cavalry runs in*

No, seriously, chuck in a few musical numbers, it'd work.



In conclusion, it's ace.

Comments

[kirarakim.livejournal.com]

I am definitely holding out hope that there is more to this because of the no body thing (there has to be a reason for that). But I don't think I can follow A2A unless I know for sure there is more to it.

For now, I just feel better ignoring A2A and sticking with the LoM ending which was well pretty much perfect for me.

This is why I hate sequels

[kangeiko]

I am definitely holding out hope that there is more to this because of the no body thing (there has to be a reason for that). But I don't think I can follow A2A unless I know for sure there is more to it.

I think that, while I liked Sam, it was the rest of the team that really did it for me, especially Gene. And so I will definitely watch, probably because I am more emotionally invested in seeing Gene suffer than anything else. :)

(In any other context, that would be a bad sign, but... *g*)

This is why I hate sequels

I tend to agree... except, as you said, LoM felt perfect and closed. And this feels like... an optional extra, almost. (Also, there is the option of ignoring it if its canon goes to places I don't like. Fickle? Moi?)

[starborn-scribe.livejournal.com]

So what were the realistic avenues open for explaining Sam's absence?

Yes, exactly! I was wondering how they'd explain Sam's whereabouts, too. Having him killed in the line of duty makes perfect sense. And the lack of body? Perfect opportunity for guest appearances!

[kangeiko]

Having him killed in the line of duty makes perfect sense.

Makes me happy, too.

And the lack of body? Perfect opportunity for guest appearances!

That's what I keep sayin'! *g*

[dorsetgirl.livejournal.com]

So what were the realistic avenues open for explaining Sam's absence?

Good analysis. I'd hoped that they would leave Sam's fate unspecified in some way, thus leaving the door open for whatever in the future, but then when we heard a while back that "we hear about Sam's fate" I was a bit nervous. I wasn't happy at all to read "Sam died", as (a) I don't want that to happen and (b) I think it's simply unnecessary. What purpose does it serve, apart from to piss off the fanbase?

However, as one who is quite happy to keep different theories in separate boxes and hold them all at once - I'm finally getting near the end of my "only 1973 is real" fic - I hadn't thought too much about how the "unspecified fate" could be mentioned. Because clearly with this setup, you have to mention Sam pretty early on, like as soon as Alex finds out Gene's name.

Something that interests me is the way they will present Gene's feelings over Sam having disappeared or died. Because whatever Matthew might say about Sam falling in love with Annie, not Gene, the Life on Mars directors were more than happy to go with the slashy in terms of personal space, long intense glances, Sam stroking Gene's arm etc, not to mention all the groin-to-groin stuff. So I hope they will find some way of hinting that it was more than just a work relationship.

[kangeiko]

Because clearly with this setup, you have to mention Sam pretty early on, like as soon as Alex finds out Gene's name.

Well, yeah - she's not gonna be shy about asking! *g*

Something that interests me is the way they will present Gene's feelings over Sam having disappeared or died.

Definitely. I like that he's supposed to be a lot more low-key and a lot quieter in A2A, and some have already speculated it's because of Sam's loss...

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I'm totally with you. I don't really like the show continuing without Sam at all, but if they have to, the "he's 'dead' but with no body *wink wink*" thing is the best way they could do it. It's far preferable to "Sam voluntarily left the team" or "Sam and Annie got married and had lots of disgusting little babies," and leaves his fate basically open. (Including the guest appearance possibility. *fingers crossed*)

[kangeiko]

(Including the guest appearance possibility. *fingers crossed*)

*joins you in crossing fingers*

[trollopfop.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I was starting to feel like the only person in the world who was completely unsurprised by this and, while not made happy, it made sense to me.

And wondering if I was an insensitive ass for being pretty 'meh' about it personally. (No offense to the people who really were seriously upset and traumatized by it. I've broken down over fictional characters before, and I get that, but this... This isn't Sam's Story, this is Writers' Convenience. It doesn't feel real to me in the sense of character arc, but it's what they had to do to keep things from constantly being about lack-of-Simm. So while not gleeful over this, I get it and it's not hitting me like I'm losing a tv-friend.)

[aguynamedgoo.livejournal.com]

I agree to a point. I agree they had to do something to make people not constantly bug them about when John Simm was going to come back, but at the same time, I don't agree with one fundamental fact: he didn't come back for the entire team.

I actually just came to this conclusion watching the last episode again last night. The progression goes like this: Sam is constantly telling one person the one thing that isn't bad about 1973 is them. In the last episode, during the heist, he tells this same person he won't leave them, knowing how close he is to going home, whatever his home may be, and basically deciding he'd rather stay and with for them than go back to whatever home is. Once in 2006 again miserable, he confides in his mother that the thing that's tearing him apart inside is having to leave this one person. When making his decision to return, the final voice that runs through his mind is this one person's voice, and the promise he made to them. Once he was back, Phyllis knew he was looking for this one person and told him to find them, and once he did, he was seeking validation in his decision. He was at the Railway Arms and it became apparent he hadn't checked on the rest of the team having left the hospital yet when he went to find this person.

And that one person is? Annie, of course. Call me a starry-eyed shipper all you want, but that Christmas story and Matthew Graham's own starry-eyed romanticism really sealed it for me: if Sam had to stay in 1973, his team is basically just gravy. He's there for Annie. And as long as Annie didn't leave him, I don't see a reason to get rid of Sam other than the need to eliminate the possibility of him coming back from the plot.

[kangeiko]

I don't agree with one fundamental fact: he didn't come back for the entire team.

Yeah, we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Now, I ship Sam/Annie. I also ship Sam/Gene (and Sam&Gene, if you want them to be best buds). But nothing gets me hitting 'back' on a fic faster than to see Sam coming back for one person only - be in Gene or Annie or Phylli's pet dog. I don't find it romantic. I find it disturbing - and it ruins my glowy feeling at him returning to 1973. Sam returning to a life that he loves and with people that he loves is all well and good - Sam returning to a place that he hates and only tolerates with impending madness creeping nearer and nearer is basically him condemning himself to a slow insanity for Annie's (or Gene's) sake.

So we're gonna have to disagree on this. Much as I thought Romeo & Juliet were bollocks, I also don't hold with Sam being swayed by true love triumphing over the suckiness of 2006 and the suckiness of 1973, to boot.

[aguynamedgoo.livejournal.com]

And I am not saying that's how I want it to be, nor am I saying all of 1973 was hell for Sam (his conversation with Nelson about how you know you're alive when you can feel, then the scene in the boardroom where he realizes he can't feel in 2006, seems to have been the final, clinching moment when he made his decision, which suggests a general desire to be back to in 1973, not just for one person). I just don't believe, from the standpoint of what the writers give us, that Sam would call it quits on the '70s/'80s just because Gene and company aren't there. It's not about the overwhelming evidence for Sam coming back to 1973 just for Annie or just because he likes the atmosphere and thinks he can do real good there, but the lack of evidence that Gene and the gang factored into his decision at all.

That's not to say this wouldn't suck the royal haunchy or I want to believe this, though. Just trying to wrap my mind around Matthew Graham's intentions here and, in all likelihood, missing the mark by a wide margin.

[kangeiko]

I just don't believe, from the standpoint of what the writers give us, that Sam would call it quits on the '70s/'80s just because Gene and company aren't there.

*scratches head* I don't think I said that he would. I did say that the worst possible version of 'Lives for Sam' for me would be that he and Annie got married and had babies. (Because Annie needs to be a DCI, not at home with triplets.) And I think that he would have followed Gene to London, simply because this is his life. This isn't a group of people he works with in the office, this is people he is a policeman with, which is something entirely different. If Gene said, I'm off to London, and my team can come with, the entire team, Annie included, IMO, would have gone - and no, not because Sam was following Gene, or Annie was following Sam. Not because of heart-wrenching, must-shag-or-die, never-ending love. But because they are a team - nothing more, nothing less. They've worked together for nine years, after all. I think that saying 'Oh, but the rest could go hang, he was only there for Annie' - well, it cheapens his choice. It cheapens Annie's choice, for that matter. She nearly stops being Sam's friend when she sees him betray them those times - in 1x07, as well as in 2x08. Not her. Them.

the lack of evidence that Gene and the gang factored into his decision at all.

Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Sam spends most of the finale agonising over turning Gene over to Morgan - agonising over it, crying, even - because Gene is real to him. It's not about Annie. And it's not about Gene, even - it's about 1973 becoming real for him.

Later on, he's not saying to his mother that there's a special person back there for him, he's saying that he made a promise. And he did - he promised Annie that he'd come back for them - for them, for the team.

Much as I love Sam/Annie, and although I am sure that MG intended Sam/Annie to be in love, he didn't simply come back for her, or stay for her, or not go to London for her. He didn't commit suicide for her (because that would be a sign of real mental illness, and there goes my happy ending). Instead, he chose a reality where he could be in love with her.

Anyway. Er. We're gonna have to leave it there because I have a meeting. :) But I think we're looking at this completely differently, so we're really gonna have to agree to disagree! *g*

[aguynamedgoo.livejournal.com]

I guess we will. That or I will just have to admit I'm a whiny little titbaby who refuses to see this development as remotely near a good thing (although I still admit it makes sense and you have a point, unlike the person I originally responded to, I'm not going to thank you for it. Just sulk in my corner for a while).

Also, I should add that it's 7:30 AM where I am and I haven't been to bed yet. Otherwise I wouldn't have said squat.

[kangeiko]

Lol! Well, maybe the day will be a lovely one. :)

[trollopfop.livejournal.com]

Taking a moment to break into this:

I did say that the worst possible version of 'Lives for Sam' for me would be that he and Annie got married and had babies.

Disagree.

(Because Annie needs to be a DCI, not at home with triplets.)

Agree completely on this point... But, back to my earlier disagreement.

I have no problem with them getting married, as long as it's a true partnership, not some fanbrat's delusion that Annie will suddenly turn into a Good Little Housewife. (Ew. Just... ew.)

I have some problem with kids, in that I cannot see them planning for children. However, there are, just as a for-instance, several drugs that can interfere with birth-control pills. I'm living proof. (And yeah, I'm pretty okay with the fact that I was conceived as the accidental result of antibiotics messing with birth control -- still got a mom who loves me, no issues there.) I'm also living proof that a woman can have a career and still have kids, as most of my childhood was spent at my grandmother's house, as both parents were working.

And really, Sam's the supposedly enlightened 21st century man. I can't see him expecting Annie to suddenly drop her career for the baby. If anything, I'd see him stepping up for baby-feeding and diaper-changing.

Would this be a happy solution? No. Both parents would be coppers, and this would lead to lots of angst over the very real possibility of them both dying and leaving a little Tyler orphan. Also, lots of angst about not giving their child sufficient attention if they did find someone else to raise the kidlet while they worked. Possibly a lot of angst about Annie having the baby in the first place.

Wouldn't be easy. Wouldn't be fun. Could still work, and could still end up happy, though.

This makes it, of course, a very bad note to leave Sam and Annie on for A2A, because there's no way to fit in the amount of backstory required to make that work. I agree with you there. However, I wouldn't say it's the worst of all possible lives. Not by a long shot.

(I haven't read that much Sam/Annie fic, sadly, so I don't know if this has been handled with the kind of maturity and depth I'd hope for, but if it was, it could be an interesting story, and one I'd enjoy reading.)

[kangeiko]

This isn't Sam's Story,

Which is interesting, 'cause that's what MG was saying - that in A2A we find out stuff and it doesn't have anything to do with Sam's story or Alex's story, that there's something other than that, and they're just pieces in a puzzle...

[amy-wolf.livejournal.com]

I liked the idea. Sam's the character that really clicked for me (I do intend to give Alex a chance, though), and I was bothered by what Ashes to Ashes would imply about him. If they'd never mentioned him, keeping it entirely consistent with what Matthew Graham said at the end of Life on Mars, it would have just reinforced the idea of Sam throwing his life away for a dream world. Just a suicide. And if he'd vanished in 1973, he'd never really have gone back with the team.

Never-found-the-body dead sounds less dead to me (as I have read comic books before), and makes it more like he was trading his 2007 life for something real.

[kangeiko]

Never-found-the-body dead sounds less dead to me (as I have read comic books before), and makes it more like he was trading his 2007 life for something real.

Exactly. (And I keep saying - give it a couple of years, he'll come back for a guest appearance... *g*)

[axel-silver.livejournal.com]

I always thought that it'd be awesome if Sam came back as a sort of testcard-girl-like figure, someone who torments Alex. XD
But honestly, anything that doesn't make him "settle down" is fine with me.

[kangeiko]

I always thought that it'd be awesome if Sam came back as a sort of testcard-girl-like figure, someone who torments Alex. XD

Oh God, that would be freaky.

[smiley-nat.livejournal.com]

Strange as it is, what really bothers me is how your car winds up in a river during a jewelry(sp?) store burglery. That just fails to make any kind of sense to me. I'm sure it does, I just don't get it.

[kangeiko]

Maybe he's been kidnapped and it got dumped in the canal? Aren't there some jewellery stores on Canal Street?

e

[smiley-nat.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I'm American, so I have no clue. I just think it's really weird. I mean, if his car is going to wind up in the river, why make it a jewellery store robbery? Why not just a car crash or something? *shrugs*

[galacticowl.livejournal.com]

The whole thing of Sam's body not being found means to me that he's still alive. That's just my opinion. He could very well be dead and as to it being something that people don't like, well a lot of people didn't like the ending of LOM either and I loved it. I never cared that Matthew said Sam had committed suicide. To me, he found a way to get back to where he wanted to be and jumping was his way of time traveling. We never saw his body on the sidewalk after he "jumped" so why would he necessarily be dead that time either? Why can't he just have time traveled? What difference does it make in the end what Matthew says? He created the characters, he doesn't own them, your own mind does so just think what you want. If you want to think Sam's dead, that's ok too. I don't think that way. I think he's alive and maybe faked his own death for reasons we don't know. Mabye he'll show up in London in 2008. We'll have to watch tghe show to see. In the meantime, in the end, Matthew and Ashley can write what they please since they did create these wonderful characters to begin with and then we all have the right to make up our own minds.
People get upset when a beloved character dies but there's about as much evidence for Sam's death here, (especially as we have yet to see the show), as there was at the end of LOM, even though he jumped. He then reappeared in a tunnel. So maybe this is going to be the same kind of thing. The only thing we can do is wait and see. Whoever doesn't like A2A can create their own world in fanfic. It's not going to be to everyone's taste, just like the ending of LOM wasn't to everyone's taste.

[kangeiko]

The whole thing of Sam's body not being found means to me that he's still alive. That's just my opinion.

Definitely.

People get upset when a beloved character dies but there's about as much evidence for Sam's death here,

I know - and think of the alternatives! *g*